|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio The OSS
1169
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 08:32:30 -
[1] - Quote
I can't wait to get pounded in the ass with the fighter skills next. |
Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio The OSS
1169
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 08:59:28 -
[2] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Very Aggressive Reacharound wrote: ^this and it should be non racial its giant logistics and to train carrier and fax would still be long train but you could cross train easier much like current logistics. if it works for other logistics why change it for carrier... oh wait i forgot you hirred Maria Sayans and you have to make people pay for injectors.
Or possibly it's because Carriers are considered T1 ships, not T2 ships and T1 ships have racial lines, and T2 ships require those same racial lines to V per race and then an additional skill on top. Really, you are just having an entitlement whine at this point. And Malcanis, you are being a two year old. This doesn't take effect for three months or longer, of course there was going to be an Aur sale between now and then, and timing it with the new release of a new aur item is common business practice, or are CCP not allowed to use basic common business techniques to make any profit at all?
There comes a point of scaling.
This might follow the principles of mining frigates (and I agree there, there is precedent) but that was like 5k isk and a rank 1 skill .
That is not the same on a relative scale as 2 billion layout, a 14x skill and losing half of what one can do today overnight.
I mean, be honest, if they added a new skill required for each ships to be flown: 14x, at 500m a book you'd be utterly furious. Let's call it "$RACE flight authorization skills" and without it, you don't get to do tomorrow what you can do today. Are you seriously telling me you'd be ok with that?
So, are you surprised the carrier guys are more than a little pissed? Because I'm not.
There is a difference between blindly following precedent and doing the decent thing. A more recent example of that would be when the starting skills were altered but newbros caught in the middle got a free SP drop. I don't recall anyone crying about that, but this is ok right? Because it's older guys getting the shaft?
It is a very disappointing move from CCP, very disappointing indeed.
And as I say, I expect to see a humping on fighter skills too. |
Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio The OSS
1170
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 09:39:05 -
[3] - Quote
No I'm not, I'm saying you'd just be less good at them i.e. not able to do what you could previously. The very fact you're dancing around it tells me how happy you would be.
And no, it's very clearly an older player shafting.
Newbro wants to train triage? 500m per FAX.
Old guy wants it? 500m on top of the 500m they already sunk and the associated vestigial skills with the now useless to them carrier skill.
At the end of the day, with different hulls they could today fulfil two roles, this is 100% not possible as a result of the changes. To return to this it's about 7 months and a couple of billion. Smaller groups are hurt even more by this to boot as they rely on the same pilots being able to sit in multiple ships etc, they don't have the bodies to split between DPS and triage. It is an appalling way to handle it.
Remember when they split the industrial hulls they kept the same skill. I didn't need half a dozen new skills to use all the gallente ones.
CCP may be following the letter of their rules, but it's sure as hell not in the spirit of them. |
Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio The OSS
1170
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 09:53:09 -
[4] - Quote
If you don't even know what the carrier prereqs are, please stop bleating in a discussion about carriers.
and again, re-read it. I specifically said " you don't get to do tomorrow what you can do today".
You know, exactly what's happening to carriers. |
Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio The OSS
1170
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 10:02:26 -
[5] - Quote
Confirming drone interfacing is useful to my dedicated logi/triage pilot. Jesus.
I get it, you're of the **** the old guys generation. Enjoy your game. |
Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio The OSS
1170
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 10:42:36 -
[6] - Quote
I'm done arguing with people who have never sat in a carrier. That the only people who are happy about this are those enjoying a healthy dose of jealously driven schadenfreude and not actual credible cap pilots. Hell the entire focus group think's its a crappy way to handle this.
However when this precedent comes around to something you do care about, I'll be sure to remind you all to htfu.
And I don't even fly triage so these don't affect me, but even so I can see it's an awful, awful way to be handling this. A real two fingers to people. |
Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio The OSS
1178
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 15:41:12 -
[7] - Quote
Confirming triage carriers were #1 damage on kills regularly.
You appear to be conflating triage and slowcat. |
Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio The OSS
1179
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 15:50:25 -
[8] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:Confirming triage carriers were #1 damage on kills regularly.
You appear to be conflating triage and slowcat. No amount of refitting can make a basilisk turn into a dps platform.
That's neither here nor there. Cruiser V lets me jump from DPS to logi.
Carrier V used to too. Well, it would if I could use triage, but you take my point.
The lack of specialised carrier hulls creates a demand for a new hull and changes to old one certainly, it absolutely does not create a need for new skill as well.
The bottom line is there is absolutely no need for a new skill, certainly not one at that cost.
Why the heck should I be able to do everything I can today with my carrier after the changes, but my logi bros need to pay out? That's bullshit and you know it. |
Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio The OSS
1182
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 16:25:42 -
[9] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:Confirming triage carriers were #1 damage on kills regularly.
You appear to be conflating triage and slowcat. No amount of refitting can make a basilisk turn into a dps platform. That's neither here nor there. Cruiser V lets me jump from DPS to logi. Carrier V used to too. Well, it would if I could use triage, but you take my point. The lack of specialised carrier hulls creates a demand for a new hull and changes to old one certainly, it absolutely does not create a need for new skill as well. Not in the same ship which is the core problem with carrier and the reason they are being split. The reason why you think it does not deserve a new skill is because you are used to having both. If it all had been released like how it is supposed to end up being, people would of taken it and trained for whatever they wanted to fly.
You appear to be being willfully obtuse.
Explain why a new hull and rebalance of texting old is insufficient to correct them. |
Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio The OSS
1182
|
Posted - 2016.02.09 16:49:27 -
[10] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote:
You appear to be being willfully obtuse.
Explain why a new hull and rebalance of texting old is insufficient to correct them.
I don't know the real answer but if I have to make a guess on why they did it, I'd say it's because they want each capital hull your train for to be a meaningful choice with the associated time sink.
And yet it's ill thought out as the x14 and costs are because it also was for supers. Not so much with these. |
|
Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio The OSS
1185
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 12:13:09 -
[11] - Quote
Considering they can easily make the main timesink of the new carriers fighters and triage, that's not a valid argument.
Furthermore dreads being cheaper and a lower rank undermines the goal you claim they have anyway.
Where are the new skill requirements for the stasis grapplers? Where is the unique bowhead skill? Or is it just cap pilots who get the good news? |
Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio The OSS
1187
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 12:39:47 -
[12] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Morrigan LeSante wrote: Where are the new skill requirements for the stasis grapplers? Where is the unique bowhead skill? Or is it just cap pilots who get the good news?
Uh, that would be called Ore Freighter, a skill which only does the Bowhead? Seriously, at least try to know what you are whining about.
My mistake, I forgot about it. Your attitude is ironic though.
Perhaps you could explain the navy battlecruisers, indeed the navy anything - doesn't need a new skill.
The Nosprey is quite clearly a different distinct role from the osprey.
Perhaps we need navy ship books too.
Cripes man, aside from the odd troll, not a single cap pilot is happy about this. The entire focus group dislikes it.
When you've managed to **** off everyone with a transition you know you're doing it wrong. |
Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio The OSS
1187
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 12:49:52 -
[13] - Quote
Tawaif wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:Please dont make me create a reddit account. Nobody wants that. Maybe you should because it seems CCP take about as much notice of their Forum's as I do of the current lines and price's in the Aurum store.
Given the silence in the current top reddit post, which has 90% approval from a nearly five hundred people last I checked...yeah don't hold your breath.
Here's the tl;dr of the impact:
Loroseco Cross wrote:A pilot with perfect remaps and +4s trains about 2600sp/hour. To get my two Archon pilots to the same utility they have now, I will have to train for a total of 156 days on both accounts. That's 6 PLEX, or 33 skill injectors. So either 7.2bil per account if I'm patient enough to train, or 15-20bil in injectors (300k sp per injector). Bear in mind that I only have Amarr carrier 5. Anyone with all carriers to 5 will have to train for 328 days to maintain the same utility post-Citadel that they currently have today. |
Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio The OSS
1187
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 12:54:18 -
[14] - Quote
Yeah, this one made me laugh though: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/44a906/patch_notes_patch_notes_for_february_2016_release/czopb28
Turns out it wasn't so much speculation as entirely accurate foretelling. |
Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio The OSS
1194
|
Posted - 2016.02.10 16:48:46 -
[15] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Mates,
We hear you! We're rethinking our Force Auxiliary skill transition plan. Please wait for the devblog for more details.
Cheers, CCP Larrikin
You....I like you. |
Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio The OSS
1198
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 10:42:26 -
[16] - Quote
Justin Cody wrote:Substantia Nigra wrote:My main carrier-dood has each carrier skill as well as fighters to V. So now, simply to have him be able to fly these new variant carriers, i am being required to 'invest' 2.2 billion isk and many more months of queue time ... just for that one character.
That really is ridiculous gouging.
Why in Hek would you completely nullify all those months of training and force all that additional expenditure? Ok so here's a point that no one is really making: Due to the role split DPS carriers are getting additional ECM utility of some kind and presumably the FAUX Machines will get some additional utility that you didn't have as a triage pilot previously (by the time it is released).
Perhaps but the ecm utility etc and all that cool stuff is from the fighters which are gated behind some heavy skills of their own - as we can see from the seeding of those new skills.
Which is completely fine, by the way, I'm just saying that it's not gated behind the hull and there's no reason a single skill won't suffice here. |
Morrigan LeSante
Senex Legio The OSS
1199
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 13:16:15 -
[17] - Quote
People wet themselves and think "zomg capital! must be expensive! you must be rich!"
However given I can pick up a thanatos for about 90m more than a paladin......the reality is slightly different. |
|
|
|